MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
In these times of turbulence, of uncertainty, how about this? - for comfort food, the perfect roast chicken. Just four ingredients - the chicken, two lemons, salt, pepper - the recipe basically is, season the chicken, stuff the lemons inside, cook it. And that is Marcella Hazan's classic, iconic roast chicken with lemons. Watching one crisp up is one of the many pleasures in the new documentary about Hazan's life and cooking, which is titled simply "Marcella."
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "MARCELLA")
GIULIANO HAZAN: You know, for my mother it was, I don't know if I would say taken for granted, but, you know, it was normal. This is what you ate.
KELLY: Well, her son, Giuliano Hazan, is in the film and joins me now to talk about it. Welcome.
HAZAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
KELLY: Is that chicken really as good as it looks? - 'cause it looks amazing.
HAZAN: The chicken is magical. That's really how I would describe it. As you said, there's very few ingredients, but that was really one of my mother's gifts, to be able to put very few ingredients together and make something extraordinary.
KELLY: So let's start at the beginning, as the film does. It tells the story of your mother's improbable path to becoming a famous chef. And I say improbable for a couple of reasons. One was, and I never knew this, a childhood accident had left her with a broken right arm that never fully healed. Incredibly challenging for a chef who needs to use their hands in the kitchen - how did she learn to work around it?
HAZAN: My mother was determined to be able to do anything and everything. And so she was not going to let having a lame arm stop her from anything. She was born right-handed, but after this accident, she had to learn how to write left-handed. And so also when she started cooking, she figured out how to do things with, as she put it, 1 1/2 arms instead of two.
KELLY: The other reason I say it was improbable that she ended up this world-famous chef is that she trained not to be a chef, but to be a scientist. She had dual degrees. She didn't learn to cook until she married your dad and moved from Italy to New York City in the 1950s.
HAZAN: That is correct, yes. I mean, she used to be perfectly happy with a mortadella sandwich, you know, for a meal.
KELLY: (Laughter) As are we all.
HAZAN: Yes. I mean, there's nothing wrong with one (laughter). But my father wanted more. She used to say that my father could put up with a lot of things but not a bad meal. And so she started, you know, teaching herself how to cook. And I think she discovered early on that she really had an intuition for it. It was buried within her, I guess. My grandmother used to be a very good cook. And so she started being able to put flavors together in a wonderful way. Flavor was really what was most important to my mother.
KELLY: What was for dinner when you were a little kid?
HAZAN: Oh, it was so many different things. I mean, I have a weakness for pasta, so whenever she would cook a pasta dish, I was always happy.
KELLY: Were you something of a guinea pig? Like, if - we'll see if Giuliano likes it, and then I'll roll it out for everybody else?
HAZAN: (Laughter) Actually, she used to call me her official taster...
KELLY: (Laughter) Wow.
HAZAN: ...Because she actually didn't like to taste. She would always smell what she was cooking to see whether it needed salt or needed something else.
KELLY: Yeah, there's a scene in the movie where she's not tasting anything. A pot is bubbling away. She sniffs it and says, needs more salt. And I'm thinking, how can you tell that just from smelling it?
HAZAN: (Laughter).
KELLY: But she could?
HAZAN: Yes. No, absolutely. Absolutely. But when she wanted more information, she would say, official taster, come here. And I'd come and taste.
KELLY: How old were you when she started teaching you?
HAZAN: I - well, I was young. I don't remember exactly how old, but I - ever since I was maybe six or seven, I think, I liked to watch her while she was cooking in the kitchen. There was a stool I sat on. And, you know, little by little, she would start to let me do some things. I think one of the first things I did was stir the risotto. And I really only started cooking in earnest when I left home, mostly because I was hungry.
KELLY: (Laughter).
HAZAN: I missed the food that I was used to.
KELLY: So she learned to cook, as we've described, as a matter of necessity. Your dad was hungry. You were hungry. And it turns out she was really good at it. So her story is she started teaching cooking classes, and then she got a call one day - hey, what if you wrote a cookbook? - which I gather was a challenge because her English was a lifelong work in progress. Your father, Victor, had to step in there?
HAZAN: Yes. My mother, you know, when she first moved to the States, didn't speak a word of English. But she started learning how to speak, but writing was a different thing. And she said, you know, there's no way that I can write a cookbook in English. But my father said, well, you know, what if I translated it for you? And so they began this working partnership where my mother would write the recipes and then my father would look at them and would ask her some questions to clarify things, and then he would sit at the typewriter and type them out.
KELLY: I gather quantity was also an issue. She didn't like to measure...
HAZAN: No. I don't either, actually (laughter).
KELLY: ...Which is a challenge when you're writing a cookbook. Like...
HAZAN: It is.
KELLY: ...Throw the right amount in is not going to cut it for the rest of us.
HAZAN: Exactly. Exactly. So she - you know, she would first practice making a dish until she was happy with the way it came out. And then she would make it again and measure everything. And sometimes, my father would come to the rescue and, you know, catch something that she was putting in in a measuring cup or something like that, and...
KELLY: Oh, like, she would say, I'm just going to throw in the right amount, and your dad would have to catch it and figure out how much...
HAZAN: Yes.
KELLY: ...That was for the cookbooks?
HAZAN: Yes, exactly (laughter).
KELLY: Do you know if she had a favorite dish, a meal that if she was cooking - I don't know - just for herself or just for you and her dad, this is what - this was the go-to?
HAZAN: So if you asked her that, she would look at you and say, that's a media question.
(LAUGHTER)
HAZAN: She - you know, it depended on what she saw at the market that inspired her, what was good that day and what got her mouth watering. And the next day, it might be something different.
KELLY: Well, I'm guilty as charged of asking the media question, and that's the perfect answer. Whatever's in the market. That's what's for dinner. Giuliano Hazan, I want to thank you for talking with us. And I will share, my grand plan for this coming weekend is going to be buying a couple lemons and a chicken and paying tribute to your mom, cooking her famous roast chicken. Thank you.
HAZAN: Wonderful. Buon appetito.
KELLY: Grazie. Giuliano Hazan, talking about the new documentary about his mother, "Marcella."
(SOUNDBITE OF ANGELO PETISI'S "MALINCONICA LUNA") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
