MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Learned that the Justice Department was ending its oversight of those police reform agreements. It came during our visit to Minneapolis and the neighboring state capital, Saint Paul. For our reporting on how the Twin Cities remember the killing of George Floyd and the protests here that came afterwards, we had an appointment to interview Minnesota's attorney general. Keith Ellison led the state prosecution of the four police officers who were charged in connection with Floyd's killing, taking the case from local authorities at the request of Minnesota's governor, Tim Walz. Just a few days away from marking five years since Floyd's death, I ask Ellison about the timing of the Trump administration's announcement.
KEITH ELLISON: Well, I think the timing is designed directly to demonstrate contempt for George Floyd, George Floyd's family, everybody who protested and wanted a more just outcome. Everybody who's trying to build a more trusting, more effective relationship between police and community should be offended. But that's sort of par for the course, isn't it? I mean, it - wasn't it Donald Trump who said, when the looting starts, the shooting starts? I mean, he's like the master of disaster.
MARTIN: Do you think it sends a message to police that they don't have to follow these new rules and that the old rules apply?
ELLISON: Maybe some, but I can also tell you that there is a new generation of police officers who are committed to reform - you know, people like Cariol Horne in Buffalo, New York. She fought for years to make it so that officers would have to, as a matter of obligation, report misconduct. And you get others like Medaria Arradondo, who was the chief of police in the city of Minneapolis, who has been a reformer and - trying to make sure the police and communities could really trust each other because they elevated constitutional rights and respect.
MARTIN: You know, the federal investigation found that the Minneapolis police engaged in a pattern of unjustified deadly force, unlawful discrimination against Black and Native American people, and violated citizens' free speech rights when they objected. There's a state consent decree. I mean, if the state essentially found the same thing, was a federal consent decree really necessary, in your opinion?
ELLISON: Yes, it was. I can - let me take you back to the early days after this happened five years ago. In 2020 and 2021, some people said, well, why is the state doing this, since it's pretty clear that the feds are going to do an investigation? Well, now we know that we were wise to do it, don't we? Because you never know who's going to win the next presidential election, and they could be somebody like Donald Trump. So you have to wear a belt and suspenders, you know, so to speak.
MARTIN: So a new report by the independent monitor who's been asked to oversee the city's progress in meeting the goals set out in that state agreement - they said that the city is making progress in a number of areas. I know this report just came out, but what's your reaction to it? And what do you say to people who argue, look, it's been five years - you know, does it really take this long to make meaningful change?
ELLISON: Well, your first question, I - it fits with what I'm seeing. But, you know, the success that we've had is because a lot of people really put a lot of time and energy into it and really committed to meaningful reform. So I hope that our progress continues. Course, we've had some cases that have been disturbing, and we lost a young man named Amir Locke. You know, it's not like there have - we've had trouble-free. But in the main, I think that we're making consistent progress.
On the other front, I mean, how long have we been talking about sad and unfortunate and tragic police community relations? I believe the Kerner Commission in 1968 was written in large measure because of this problem. I mean, it takes us five years to make meaningful reform? Well, this problem's at least 100 years old, and so I'll take it as long as we're moving in the right direction. Not satisfied, but I'll take the progress.
MARTIN: You wrote a book about your experience with the Floyd prosecution and what came after, you know, a couple of years ago. It was titled "Break The Wheel," a metaphor for ending the cycle of police violence. If you and I were to speak five years from now, do you think that that wheel will have been broken?
ELLISON: Well, Michel, I have every expectations that we will break it. Not because I have so much evidence to base that on - it's just that I'm an optimistic person, and I'm going to be working for it. And I know so many other people will be, too.
MARTIN: That is Keith Ellison. He is the attorney general of Minnesota. Attorney General Ellison, thank you so much for speaking with us.
ELLISON: Thank you, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
