MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Hunter Biden has had quite a lot to say lately. In two interviews out this week, the surviving son of former President Joe Biden is defending his father's political legacy, and he lashed out at those who criticized his dad's mental fitness and his decision to pursue a second term. Here's the younger Biden speaking to Andrew Callahan, host of the "Channel 5" podcast.
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HUNTER BIDEN: The only people that [expletive] appealed to those [expletive] white voters was Joe Biden at 81 years old, and he got 81 million votes. And he did because - not because he appeased their [expletive] Trumpian sense, but because he challenged it.
MARTIN: Hunter Biden has long been a target for Republicans and even some Democrats. As the former president prepared to exit the White House in December, he pardoned his son, who was facing sentencing in two criminal cases related to taxes and gun possession. Previously, Joe Biden had said he would not grant his son clemency but said he changed his mind because he said he thought his son had been targeted because he was the president's son.
We wanted to get a sense of how Hunter Biden's remarks are reverberating now, so we've called Tyler Pager. He's a White House correspondent for The New York Times, and the co-author of a new book called "2024: How Trump Retook The White House And The Democrats Lost America." Good morning, Tyler. Thanks for joining us.
TYLER PAGER: Thanks so much for having me.
MARTIN: As I mentioned, you just co-authored a book about the 2024 campaign, and in it, you get into how you think Hunter Biden's legal and personal problems may have helped to derail his father's campaign. As briefly as you can, why do you think that?
PAGER: Yeah. I mean, I think the toll that the president underwent as Hunter faced criminal charges, just sort of all of the distraction of that experience on the president during June 2024, the month where he did two foreign trips, he had that infamous fundraiser with George Clooney and Julia Roberts - and then also the debate with Donald Trump. We report in the book that leading into that month, Joe Biden told a close friend, all that matters is that my son is not convicted.
MARTIN: So what do you think Hunter Biden represents now?
PAGER: Right now, I think what we're hearing from Hunter Biden is a lot of personal grievance and score settling. Hunter and some other members of the former president's family and close allies feel very frustrated by what they feel like was disloyalty from members of the Democratic Party. And Hunter and some of those people believe if Joe Biden did not drop out of the race, he could have defeated Donald Trump. And they are trying to take out their frustration and anger on those they feel unfairly targeted Joe Biden.
MARTIN: So, you know, he talked on that podcast about the messaging he hears from Democrats. This is a little bit of what he had to say about that.
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BIDEN: All these Democrats say, you have to talk about and realize that people are really upset about illegal immigration. [Expletive] you. How do you think your hotel room gets cleaned? How do you think you got food on your [expletive] table?
MARTIN: So look, apart from the family's - the Biden family's sort of grievances about the way the former president was treated, do you think Hunter Biden represents a point of view within the party more broadly?
PAGER: Yeah. I think there are elements of things that he references in those lengthy interviews that are frustrating and animating the Democratic Party as they try to find their way out of the wilderness, locked out of power in Washington. But I think there are many Democratic leaders - and even rank-and-file Democrats - who are not all that interested at this moment from hearing from Hunter Biden. They want new voices and new ideas sort of bringing the party in a new direction. And so, while there are definitely elements of what Hunter is saying that might find resonance in the Democratic Party base, I think that right now, they're looking - it seems - for new voices and new messengers.
MARTIN: And what about the timing of these two interviews coming out now? I mean, it just seems interesting that - look, a lot of Democrats are obviously enjoying the fact and capitalizing on the fact that Trump is in the middle of a negative news cycle right now - one that calls into question the loyalty of some in his base to him. They're questioning his judgment and behavior in regards to this whole Epstein - Jeffrey Epstein - situation. And now here's Hunter Biden sort of back in the spotlight criticizing Democrats. And I just sort of wonder - I wonder about that. What do you think that's about? What do you think that means?
PAGER: Yeah, I don't think it's a particularly strategic decision for Hunter Biden to come out right now. I think Democrats are not interested in relitigating the 2024 election. They're much more interested in trying to focus on Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein and the recent domestic policy bill that Trump passed. Relitigating the past and intraparty fights and score settling is not at the top of their priority list right now.
MARTIN: That's Tyler Pager. He's a White House correspondent for The New York Times, and he's the co-author of a new book called "2024: How Trump Retook The White House And The Democrats Lost America." Tyler Pager, thanks so much for joining us.
PAGER: Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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