LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Huge majorities of Americans say corruption is a problem in politics. This, according to new research from the Brennan Center.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Many people talk about politicians enriching themselves, building systems that advantage the wealthy and powerful, all while ignoring the problems of regular people.
FADEL: NPR's Mara Liasson has been covering corruption in politics, what voters think about it and if anything can be done about it. And she's with me now. Good morning, Mara.
MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Good morning.
FADEL: So voters say they are increasingly concerned about corruption. What is contributing to that feeling?
LIASSON: Well, the feeling isn't new, but the main thing that's contributing right now is Donald Trump. He has increased his net worth by making investments in companies with business before the government at a level never seen before, as much as $2 billion in the last year. And just to give you a few examples, he bought stock in Paramount and Warner Bros. while his Justice Department was considering whether or not to approve their merger. He bought stock in Palantir and then he praised the company publicly, including in a social media post that listed Palantir's stock ticker. He invested in Oracle while he was trying to get that company to buy TikTok, and it goes on and on.
FADEL: I mean, that list is jarring. And the amount, $2 billion, a huge amount of money. How does Trump respond?
LIASSON: Well, after those disclosures, he told reporters he doesn't know anything about his own investments. Other people do them for him. Here he is talking about it on the tarmac at Joint Base Andrews while standing next to Air Force One.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, you know why I'm profiting? Because the stock market's going up. Everybody's profiting. If you have a - you have a 401(k)? How's your 401(k) done? It's about up 85%. Thank you, President Trump.
LIASSON: He's acting as if everyone is in the stock market when most people can't afford to be in the stock market. But at other times, Trump has given very different answers. He said he tried to prevent his kids from making money from his office in his first term and he didn't get any credit. He said, quote, "I found out that nobody cared." And he's right. The Supreme Court gave him a kind of blanket immunity. His acting attorney general has ruled that he and his family have lifetime immunity from IRS audits of their past tax returns. His own party in Congress isn't criticizing him for doing it. So if there are no consequences for self-dealing, why should any president restrain themselves?
FADEL: That Brennan Center report also shows that corruption is an issue for voters across the political spectrum. But how worried are they about it?
LIASSON: Well, that's the big question. Voters from our recent focus group of Pennsylvania swing voters, that is voters who voted for Biden in 2020 and Trump in 2024, have differing answers about how much they care. We identify them only by their first names. This is Betsy (ph), and she reacted pretty much with a shrug.
BETSY: No, I'm not saying it's OK. I'm just not troubled by it because I just think it's typical for politicians to increase their wealth while in office.
LIASSON: So people are incredibly cynical, almost numb. They see this as just the way things work in Washington - everybody does it. And Trump has helped contribute to that. But other voters, like Bhavana (ph), find this wrong and offensive.
BHAVANA: For me, when I see that, the first thing that comes to my mind is abuse of power. President Donald Trump, who's using his powers in manipulative ways to draw something that is of his personal interest. And that, to me, is morally wrong.
LIASSON: And then there are a lot of Trump voters who reacted like Todd (ph).
TODD: He's a shrewd businessman. What can I say?
LIASSON: So Trump has convinced a lot of his voters that he is such a good businessman, he just makes money no matter what he does.
FADEL: OK. So that's three voters kind of reacting there. Significant majorities say in polls that they don't like this kind of corruption. Is there sufficient pressure for something to actually change? 'Cause you pointed out earlier there's not really accountability.
LIASSON: Well, for people who follow this, like Michael Waldman from the Brennan Center, they say that historically, this political moment is very similar to other times in American history where corruption was actually addressed.
MICHAEL WALDMAN: Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressive Era reforms came after the corruption of the Gilded Age. After Watergate came a wave of protections and reforms in the 1970s. It's now a half century later - the corruption is growing, the abuse is growing and it's time for another reform moment.
LIASSON: Now, whether Congress will do anything about this is another question, but there are policies, reform policies that do have public support - banning stock trading for members of Congress, requiring presidents to abide by certain investment rules. It's fair to say that as long as Congress is controlled by the president's party, these things probably will not become law, but Democrats are already trying to make this a political issue, telling voters, your prices are going up while Trump and his rich friends make billions.
FADEL: That's NPR's Mara Liasson. Thank you, Mara.
LIASSON: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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