JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
There is a fight that started in Texas and is now being fought around the country. More than 50 Democratic members of the Texas state House left their state on Sunday because the Republican majority legislature directed by a Republican governor and publicly pressured by a Republican president has redrawn its congressional map with the aim of netting five more Republican seats in the U.S. House of Representatives. But they cannot vote to pass this new map without a quorum.
Now, in response, both blue states and red states are openly talking about launching their own partisan redistricting efforts, while the Texas Democrats have been staying in Democratic-led states like Massachusetts, New York and Illinois. In another part of today's program, we speak with a Republican in the Texas state legislature, but here we've reached Illinois' Democratic governor, JB Pritzker. Governor, welcome to the program.
JB PRITZKER: How are you, Juana?
SUMMERS: I'm well. Thanks for joining us. Governor, you invited these Texas Democrats to your state. Tell us why.
PRITZKER: Sure did. Well, we're honored to host them here. And frankly, their courage, their commitment to serving and protecting the rights of Texans and the rights of all Americans inspired us. And I spoke with them weeks ago because this, we thought, would be a real possibility, that they'd have to leave to break a quorum. And indeed, that's what's happened.
SUMMERS: Well, let me ask you this, governor. These lawmakers are incurring a $500-a-day fine every day that they remain outside the state of Texas for missing official business. You were supportive of these lawmakers, but are you footing the bill?
PRITZKER: We're not footing the bill. They are taking care of that themselves. But they've left behind their families and their communities, their jobs to protect the voting rights of people all across the nation, and we're very proud of that fact. It is ridiculous that they're being fined, and of course, now they're being threatened with imprisonment by the officials in Texas. And as you know...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
PRITZKER: ...John Cornyn and Ken Paxton and Greg Abbott, you know, they're all fighting with one another, proving that this is really all about politics.
SUMMERS: Let me jump in here and ask you about that, if I can. Texas Senator John Cornyn, the state's senior senator, has called on the FBI to apprehend these state lawmakers. President Trump was asked about this, and he said that the FBI - and I'm quoting here - "may have to" get involved. What if federal law enforcement show up in your state of Illinois?
PRITZKER: There are no federal laws involved here, so this is just a threat, an empty threat. You know, they think they can intimidate these lawmakers into going back home. They have no plans to go back home until they know that there's going to be a fair process to deliver emergency funding for the victims of the floods and not make it about redistricting.
SUMMERS: Texas Republicans also call for the removal from office. Do you fear, Governor Pritzker, that this tactic could backfire on the Democrats?
PRITZKER: You know, this is straight out of the authoritarian playbook. They've tossed all the rules out. They're torching every norm. They've shown us that they'll stop at nothing to give themselves absolute power. And Democrats - well, we're standing up. We're showing them that we are not going to give in.
SUMMERS: Governor Pritzker, I want to ask you about your state. Republicans point to the data that President Trump won the state of Illinois - 43- or 44% of your state's voters, but Republicans occupy just 3 of 17 house seats there, which is under 18%. So help us understand - what is the difference between the way your state has drawn its congressional map and the way that Republicans in Texas say they want to draw theirs?
PRITZKER: We drew our maps right after the decennial census. That's when the maps get drawn in every state. Here, of course, the Texas Republicans want to midstream because Donald Trump asked them to do it and they're all following their cult leader. They're intending to make changes to that redistricting. But this normally happens right after the decennial map. In Illinois, we did the very same thing. By the way, we followed the Voting Rights Act. We did that when we passed our map back in 2021. Texas Republicans now don't want to follow that, and they're going to disenfranchise Black and brown...
SUMMERS: Let me...
PRITZKER: ...Voters. That's how they intend to get this accomplished.
SUMMERS: I just want to jump in here. I mean, the Supreme Court did decide back in 2019 that partisan gerrymandering claims are beyond the reach of federal courts. But I - the question is not about constitutionality. The question that faces Texas, and the one that I want to ask you, is has redistricting resulted in fair representation for the minority party in your state?
PRITZKER: You know, just because you've got more Democrats than Republicans elected doesn't mean that it's an unfair map. The fact of the matter is that there were competitive elections in 2022, which is the first election we had after the map was drawn, and Democrats won those seats. Furthermore, I'd just point out that, you know, these same Republicans who are complaining about the way maps are drawn in Democratic states, they're the ones drawing maps in their states that are quite unfair.
It isn't the case, though, let's be clear, that just because you have more of one party than another in a state that that's an unfair map. And in Illinois, Republicans have every opportunity to run for and win office. They don't win here because their ideas are bad. And by the way, they're about to lose elections in 2026 because of the big, ugly bill, because of the policies of Donald Trump, and they're trying to change the game. Indeed, they're trying to cheat midstream.
SUMMERS: The White House is pushing more redistricting in these Republican-led states. There's a meeting tomorrow between Vice President JD Vance and leaders of your neighboring state of Indiana. Office holders in California and New York are talking about countering with a Democratic-led redistricting effort. So just play this out for me here. Does this escalate indefinitely between red states and blue states or do you see an eventual off ramp or some sort of resolution?
PRITZKER: Well, you can see what Donald Trump has brought to this country now as president. We're only seven months in, and already you're seeing that states are, you know, essentially having to ratchet up responses to what Donald Trump is doing in Republican states. So Democratic states - look, none of us want to do it. None of us wanted to go through a redistricting process. But if we're forced to, it's something that we'll consider doing.
SUMMERS: Governor Pritzker, before I let you go, I do have to ask. I know that you are running for a third term as governor in 2026, but I will ask, are you considering running for president?
PRITZKER: I'm focused on the state of Illinois, and I've always been that. Whatever I do in the future is always going to be about first considering what's best for my state.
SUMMERS: JB Pritzker is the governor of Illinois. Governor, thank you so much.
PRITZKER: Thanks, Juana. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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