MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
After sending the National Guard into Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., President Trump has eyes on Chicago. Friday, he suggested the Windy City would be next. Here he is today speaking from the Oval Office.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We may or may not. We may just go in and do it, which is probably what we should do.
KELLY: Chicago's Democratic mayor and the Democratic governor of Illinois are united in opposition to this idea. So, too, is Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He represents Illinois' 8th District, which includes part of Chicago and its northwest suburbs. He's on the line from Chicago. Congressman, welcome.
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: Absolutely. Thank you, Mary Louise.
KELLY: So we just heard the president say he hasn't made a final decision. He also suggested he would wait for Governor Pritzker to ask for his help, which does not seem likely given Governor Pritzker's opposition to this whole thing. How real, how imminent do you think this is?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think we have to take it seriously. I think that he desperately wants to distract from his problems with the management of the economy as well as the Epstein files. And this is the latest in a series of efforts to distract from those problems. And so we have to take it very seriously.
KELLY: I was seeing your post on X that Trump's plan is, and I'm quoting your words, "illegal and reckless." Just read us a little bit more into your thinking on it.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Sure. There's a doctrine called posse comitatus. It basically prohibits federal troops from being used for domestic law enforcement. That being said, the National Guard can be called into cities and states under certain very specific emergencies, none of which apply here, and therefore it's illegal.
KELLY: I mean, we saw him do it earlier this year in Los Angeles. As you know, that is still tied up in the courts - arguments ongoing about the legality of what happened in LA. I wonder, in your view, does the mere threat, the mere prospect of this start to have an impact on the city?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Sure. I think it causes people to be anxious. I think people are scared and fearful. I think that we should, you know, basically file lawsuits preemptively to declare this type of action to be unconstitutional and maybe get a temporary restraining order or preliminary injunction. But let's be very clear about the purpose of this, which, again, is to distract from his mismanagement of the economy. And I think that he almost wants to provoke a spectacle and potentially violence, which would then justify further harsh measures on his part.
KELLY: I mean, we've seen repeatedly in this and other arenas, President Trump does not appear to be particularly worried or particularly afraid of getting sued. And as I just mentioned, Los Angeles and what happened there is still tied up in the courts post facto. Practically speaking, if President Trump decides he wants to send the National Guard to Chicago, is there anything that local or state leaders can do to stop it?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, of course, he can do whatever he wants illegally, but that doesn't mean that these leaders should not go ahead and preemptively file lawsuits or lawsuits in due course because at the end of the day, we want to, you know, make sure that the public is aware of the illegality and unconstitutionality of this. I think within Congress, we have to continue to press as well. And then I've introduced legislation as well to, you know, make the deployment of these types of troops illegal unless the chief executive of the jurisdiction at issue - in this case, the governor or the mayor - would consent to it.
KELLY: I wonder, as you watch the current situation in the nation's capital, in Washington, D.C., where armed National Guard members are now patrolling the streets, anything you have seen in D.C. - which is a special situation 'cause it's a district, not a state - but anything you see in Washington that will inform how Chicago may respond?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think that, first of all, it's extremely important for anybody who decides they want to protest or express their opposition to what he does, or if there's a deployment of troops, to be very peaceful about doing it. The last thing in the world is to fall for the bait and potentially engage in escalatory actions, which is what Donald Trump would want. And I think the second thing is we have to be mindful that the people that are being deployed are good men and women. They have been called up to do their duty, so to speak, but they haven't been trained in domestic law enforcement. They have not been trained to do the things that are necessary to improve public safety. And indeed, I think the deployment of National Guard troops would do the opposite. It would probably worsen public safety.
KELLY: Congressman, violent crime is down in Chicago over the first half of this year, same as in many big cities, but there is still crime. Could there be anything useful about having hundreds or even thousands of extra pairs of hands around to fight crime?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, let's hire more police officers if that's the issue. Let's, you know, rely on the people that the community entrusts with their public safety. I don't think that bringing in National Guard troops or militarizing the situation improves the situation. I think it actually, you know, potentially causes the potential for an escalation that could lead to worse outcomes.
KELLY: What are you hearing from your constituents? Is everybody talking about this or just getting on with daily life?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, a lot of people are talking about it. They're very upset for two reasons - one, that, you know, this type of militarization of the situation could escalate into possible violence, which they fear Donald Trump wants. And then, two, they're very upset that, you know, Donald Trump is not focused on the issues that bedevil them - you know, the fact that because of the tariff chaos that we see right now, businesses are actually laying off people or that, you know, as one woman told me, she couldn't afford her groceries and her electricity bills are going through the roof.
KELLY: And last question, Congressman, when you make these points, when you lay out these arguments to the Trump administration, what do you hear back?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Silence. I think that they know that this is illegal, but I think that they are so desperate to change the conversation right now, they're willing to take even, you know, dangerous turns in doing so.
KELLY: Congressman, thank you.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.
KELLY: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat from Illinois. And in an earlier version of this story, we said we'd reached out to the Department of Homeland Security for comment. That is incorrect. We've reached out to DHS for comment on a separate story.
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