STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Our next guest is an epidemiologist. Michael Osterholm directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Welcome.
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Thank you very much.
INSKEEP: How important is this vote on delaying hepatitis B vaccines?
OSTERHOLM: Well, Steve, I can tell you without any doubt in my 50 years in the business that this is probably the most defining moment for our country in public health. If they, in fact, vote down the hepatitis B recommendation today, where the science is clear and compelling and children's lives are at risk, this will mean we can no longer trust federal health authorities when it comes to vaccines, which has, as you know, been the actual standard-bearer of vaccine science for all of these years. So this is a huge issue today.
INSKEEP: Wow. A lot to follow up on there. First, why would delaying the hepatitis B vaccine by just a couple of months, but still giving the vaccine, make such a difference in its effectiveness? It doesn't sound like that big a deal.
OSTERHOLM: Well, actually, it's a very big deal because the No. 1 way in which kids are infected with hepatitis B virus is actually exposure to blood during the birthing process to an infected mom. And so the virus transmits at that point. If you can vaccinate literally at the time of delivery or shortly thereafter, as well as give a type of immunoglobulin we call HBIG - it's an antibody that will help also tie up the virus - you can actually prevent that transmission from occurring. So it's too late to wait months later to vaccinate the child. This is not about them getting exposed, you know, through sex and drugs, as has often been referred to as the reason why you don't need to vaccinate young kids. It's that transmission from an infected mom.
INSKEEP: You also said that if they take this vote, if they make this move in defiance of the science, that we can no longer trust HHS. We can no longer trust this committee. I had an opportunity to hear Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in a speech last month in Arizona. And in this speech, he accused people at his own agency of malpractice. He said, quote, "they haven't been doing their job." He claims to represent people who don't trust the health agencies, and they're doing something about it. It seems to me that you're now flipping that around and you're saying, actually, what the agency is doing now is what is endangering trust. Is that right?
OSTERHOLM: Absolutely. And it's uniform across the world, in terms of the response to what's happening. In fact, just yesterday in The New England Journal of Medicine, 12 former FDA commissioners from both Republican and Democratic administrations wrote a scathing article about what's happening right now at HHS and the whole challenge that has come to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Countries across the world are also in the same position.
And finally, let me just say, all of the various medical societies - whether it's, you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, Infectious Diseases Society of America - all are on the same side here. I've never seen a more unified public health situation than I do now. The one challenge, of course, is our own federal government is spreading myths and disinformation that is causing parents not to vaccinate their children.
INSKEEP: And we should note, the government has already taken a large number of actions. We don't know how this committee is going to vote today. But suppose they take this vote, which for you is momentous and a Rubicon, and it means we can no longer trust the agency at all. If that happens, where would you have me turn for reliable information on vaccines for myself or my family?
OSTERHOLM: I think at this point, it's going to be the medical societies. And we did accomplish that very issue last fall when our group at the Vaccine Integrity Project at the University of Minnesota actually put together a body of detailed information on updating the COVID vaccines, the flu vaccines and the RSV vaccines. And at that point, this medical society signed on, and we did come up with different recommendations that have been used.
INSKEEP: Can go to those recommendations or go to our individual doctors, I suppose.
OSTERHOLM: Exactly. That's where really the most important information needs to be is with the doctors, to be able to share with their patients.
INSKEEP: Dr. Michael Osterholm is director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Thank you, sir.
OSTERHOLM: Thanks, Steve.
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